Vatican talks: Jonathan Morris on Rubio meeting Pope Leo XIV
contributor Jonathan Morris discusses Secretary Rubio’s high-profile meeting with Pope Leo XIV at the Vatican, addressing conflicts around the world. Morris contrasts President Donald Trump’s firm stance on Iran’s nuclear ambitions with the pope’s consistent advocacy for peace and nuclear disarmament. The meeting’s timing marks one year since Pope Leo’s election.
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Secretary of State Marco Rubio is expected to meet Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni Thursday in Rome amid diplomatic tensions with both Italy and the Vatican.
The meeting comes one day after Rubio, a practicing Catholic, held talks at the Vatican with Pope Leo and senior church officials in what many observers viewed as an effort to calm relations after weeks of escalating rhetoric between President Donald Trump and the Holy See.
For much of Trump’s second term, Meloni was widely viewed as Trump’s closest ideological ally among major European leaders. But that relationship has begun to fray amid disputes over the Iran war.
That political partnership, however, has come under strain in recent months, as Trump’s escalating clash with Pope Leo XIV collided with separate tensions over Italy’s limits on using its territory for U.S. combat-linked operations tied to the Iran war.
Rubio will travel to Italy on Wednesday for meetings with Pope Leo and Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni. (Maria Grazia Picciarella/SOPA Images/LightRocket via Getty Images)
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Asked April 30 whether he’d consider pulling troops out of Italy and Spain, Trump said, “Yeah, probably. … Why shouldn’t I?”
“Italy has not been of any help to us,” the president said.
The Italian prime minister built a strong rapport with Trump through their shared positions on immigration, nationalism, border security and opposition to progressive cultural politics. Meloni was the only European leader to attend Trump’s second inauguration in January 2025, and she also visited Trump at Mar-a-Lago as she sought to position herself as a key intermediary between Washington and Europe.
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The relationship often appeared notably warm in public.
During a 2025 Middle East summit in Egypt, Trump publicly praised Meloni as “a beautiful young woman” and joked, “You don’t mind being called beautiful, right?” before describing her as an “incredible leader” respected throughout Italy.
Trump and Meloni also found common ground politically.
Both leaders embraced tougher border enforcement policies, criticized “woke” ideology in Western institutions and argued for stronger nationalist identities inside their respective countries. Meloni’s conservative Brothers of Italy party was frequently described by Trump allies as an example of the type of populist movement reshaping Europe
The split became visible after Meloni publicly criticized Trump’s attacks on the pope as “unacceptable,” prompting Trump to lash back and reportedly tell aides she was “much different than I thought.”
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Italian media and European analysts have described the dispute as a remarkable deterioration between two leaders once viewed as natural political allies.
Rubio, a Catholic, held a private meeting with the pope marking the Trump administration’s first engagement with the pontiff in nearly a year. (Photo by Simone Risoluti – Vatican Media via Vatican Pool/Getty Images)
The Vatican dispute has been especially politically sensitive for Meloni because Pope Leo, the first American-born pontiff, remains highly influential in Italy, where criticism of the pope by foreign leaders can quickly become politically toxic. Trump’s remarks about Leo’s opposition to the war against Iran generated significant backlash among Italian Catholics and across portions of Italy’s political establishment.
The Iran conflict has further complicated relations. Italian officials reportedly have expressed growing discomfort over the possibility of deeper U.S. military escalation and concerns surrounding American military basing access in Italy. Rome has also faced pressure domestically to distance itself from Washington’s handling of the conflict.
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Economic tensions continue simmering in the background as well. While Trump earlier this year reduced tariffs on some Italian exports, including pasta products, as what he described as a “New Year’s gift” to Italy, concerns remain in Rome and Brussels over the administration’s repeated threats to impose broader tariffs on European goods.
Against that backdrop, Rubio’s visit is widely being interpreted as an effort to stabilize relations before the political rift deepens further. The secretary of state is expected to discuss Middle East security, NATO coordination, migration and trade during his talks with Meloni and other Italian officials as the administration works to preserve Italy’s role as one of Washington’s closest partners in southern Europe.
The White House and Italian embassy in the U.S. could not immediately be reached for comment.
