Iconic members of the Jets’ famed New York Sack Exchange of the 1980s, Joe Klecko and Marty Lyons tackle some Q&A with Post columnist Steve Serby on Dolphins week to discuss their 14-0 loss to their rival in the 1983 AFC Championship, aka the “Mud Bowl.”
Q: The Dolphins are in town. The Mud Bowl in Miami will forever be remembered by you and Jets fans.
KLECKO: It’s probably one of the only games that you can really have a recollection of. I remember making tackles, and putting your hand on the ground and climbing out of six inches of water, let alone mud. Defensively, it wasn’t bad. It wasn’t easy moving anybody even during dry games, let alone wet games. Our offense had more problems than we did defensively. … (Laugh) Richard Todd forgot the color of our team. He made A.J. Duhe [three interceptions for Miami that day] a household name, where the guy was a so-so linebacker and made him into a hero.
LYONS: First of all, we both had to play on the same field. It kind of took away our running game with Freeman [McNeil]. And then we had too many mistakes on the offensive side of the ball.
Q: There was a controversy over Don Shula not putting a tarp on the field.
KLECKO: It was. But the thing about it is there was no rule about it back then, he didn’t have to do it. If I was to say it was a calculated mistake, yeah I believe it was, because with our speed with Freeman and with Wesley [Walker] and Johnny [Lam] Jones, we had something to defend against, and to allow the field to be saturated the way it was, I think it meant a lot for the Dolphins. It was very disheartening to climb that uphill battle. Mother Nature hated us anyway that day, and yet we were still going hard after what really wasn’t our problem — which I mean by Richard throwing his [five] interceptions. That was a very hard thing for us to swallow.
LYONS: At that time it wasn’t mandated to cover a field. Whether Don Shula did it or whoever did it, we were a strong running game. … Then again, they played on the same field as we did. It’s not like every time they got the ball they went to a dry field. We had five turnovers and one was returned for a touchdown. I don’t know where that whistle came from when we recovered a fumble.
Q: What do you remember about waking up in the morning and seeing the downpour?
LYONS: I loved the weather. Playing in the mud didn’t bother me. That’s the way football’s supposed to be played at times. We felt like we were road warriors, and our opportunity to get to the Super Bowl didn’t happen.
KLECKO: Oh, we laughed. We didn’t know what the field was going to be like, you know? When we went to the field, that was the eye-opener. The last game of my rookie year in Philly, it poured cats and dogs. We were stepping on puddles, breaking ice. But water didn’t bother us because it was Astroturf. You could still run on Astroturf when it was wet. But when we got on that regular grass, that was disturbing. Very disturbing.
Q: Describe the postgame scene after the loss.
LYONS: I think it was very quiet. Just like anything, they always give us a little pat on the ass, and said, “Don’t worry we’ll get ’em next year,” and for a lot of us, that next year never came. And then right after the game, we fly back to New York and apparently maybe Walt [Michaels, coach], he was sticking up for us, and he said something to the wrong person. Next thing you know he was fired and the Joe Walton Era started.
KLECKO: I remember everybody’s teeth chattering (laugh). Nobody gave a damn about anything about getting cleaned up or warm. There were a lot of people who were mad. We didn’t want it to end like that, that’s for sure. The next shot was the Super Bowl, and hell, we were going to play the Redskins, which the Redskins ran all over the Dolphins [27-17], they would have never [done] that to us. It was a very, very missed opportunity on our part.
LYONS: I think we would have gone up against the Redskins with John Riggins, I think we would have had a pretty good chance. But then again you got to play for 60 minutes and can’t turn the ball over. The ball didn’t bounce our way, there was a fumble that looked like we recovered it, somehow the official blew the whistle early.
Q: That was the last game Michaels coached you guys.
KLECKO: You know what he was really mad about? Richard didn’t come home with us on the plane. He had family and he was from down there. I remember when we came back the next day, he was in [equipment manager] Bill Hampton’s room ranting and raving about Richard not coming back. Everybody stayed out of his way, because he was pissed.
Q: He was fired not long later.
KLECKO: We read about it. We all went home. He didn’t even address us.
LYONS: We had our team meeting the next day and Walt wasn’t there. If it lasted five minutes, that was a long time.
Q: Was he acting up on the plane ride home?
KLECKO: I can’t say that, we weren’t allowed in first class. We were in the back all by ourselves playing cards and drowning our sorrows with beer. A lot of guys were saying about how mad he was. I don’t know who he was directing it to.
LYONS: We were all sitting there, to be so close, 60 minutes from going to a Super Bowl.
Q: There’s no more painful loss.
LYONS: It hurts, because you work your whole life … the team had worked so hard, we went out to Cincinnati and won, we went out to California and we beat the Raiders. I think we were well-prepared, it just didn’t work out.
Q: What are your thoughts on current coach Aaron Glenn?
LYONS: I think he’s learning on the job. There’s a style of football, there’s a discipline that you need and there’s a focus they you have to have week in and week out, and I think it’s coming across in the players. I think they got some great talent in the draft.
Q: What do you tell Jet fans about Glenn?
LYONS: Don’t give up, it’s a process, and the process isn’t going to happen overnight. There’s a lot that goes into being a head coach.
KLECKO: I like him, I really do. Last year not having a quarterback, they set a league record by not having an interception, that was disheartening. I know the guys like him. And he [has a] pedigree. When he was with Dan Campbell, he left him alone and [Glenn] did very well. So why can’t he do that here? I haven’t figured that out yet.
Q: You’re rooting for him.
KLECKO: Yes, I am rooting for him.
LYONS: This is my 47th year with the Jets. I still go to all the home games as the ambassador, and talk to the fans, try to stay positive. They can get themselves right back in the race here if they can beat Miami [Sunday] and Vegas [next week].
Q: What advice would you have for David Bailey handling the pressure of New York being the second-overall pick of the draft?
KLECKO: Don’t listen to the noise, of course. Try and try and try to learn how to play the game as a pro. If you chip him, you got to work through that chip, you got to either abuse the offensive tackle or abuse that guy that’s trying to chip you to make him not want to do it anymore. If you listen to the noise, you’re not going to do anything in New York. You just play very hard and stick to your game. He hasn’t done the things to where every play he stands out, or he’s a threat every play. I think the sacks that he’s had came at opportune times. On Sunday, I’ll put an emphasis on watching him.
LYONS: Once he learns the complementary moves with that speed that he has getting outside, the anticipation of the snap count, get off the ball, and once he complements that one move, then you’ll see his sack numbers go up.
Q: Thoughts on the Jets’ 15-year playoff drought?
KLECKO: That has a lot to do with the whole kit and kaboodle — that’s organization, coaching and players. Winning is a habit and losing is a habit. And once you learn to lose, it doesn’t hurt that much to lose once you keep it up. But winning is also a habit. You hate to lose and you’ve got to win, and that’s the one you make sure you try really hard at. They have to learn to do that. You have to learn to win. If I’m working under Aaron Glenn, I don’t look back to the last 14, 13 years. I’m going to work on my era, my head coach. They have to create their own mystique and their own winning attitude. It has nothing to do with what happened the last 14 years.
LYONS: I’m part of that. Being that I did the radio for 23 years and now in my third year, I’m a part of that. I’m disappointed. I’ve lived here in New York for the last 47 years, I know the expectations that the fans have. And I think the players have the same expectation.
Q: Can you talk about your back?
KLECKO: I have a problem with my L4, L5 [vertebrae]. It’ll be my fifth spine surgery. I have [a consultation) with my back doctor, Dr. Andrew Hecht, on Monday. I was at the doctor with all my MRIs right now. Don’t ever play football (laugh).
Q: You don’t regret playing football.
KLECKO: Oh no, I don’t regret it all. You get these hands and you got to deal with them. The problem is at 73 years old, it’s not easy to build muscle, build your core strength and all they want you to do. Nobody’s as diligent as I am, but it don’t come easy.
Q: When was your first back surgery?
KLECKO: My first back surgery was my neck. I had laminectomy. I’d say it was about eight years ago now. There’s a piece of the bone that sticks out on each of your vertebrae, and they remove that so it gives your spine more room to breathe. That was when I had eight laminectomies.
Q: Joe told me he’s having his fifth spine surgery.
LYONS: You live with the pain, it was part of the game, and I don’t think I would change anything that I did, except maybe play a little bit harder at times to make it to the Super Bowl.
Q: How is your health now?
LYONS: I’m dealing with just one knee replacement, I need two shoulder replacements. …I had neuropathy in both legs, and I’m going in for surgery for carpal tunnel here in a couple of weeks. I got that in both hands.
Q: No regrets about playing football?
LYONS: None whatsoever. It gave me an opportunity to get a college education, to make it into the NFL. There’s a lot of us who didn’t make it to the Super Bowl. I was very fortunate to be named NFL Man of the Year [in 1984].
Q: Any message to Jets fans who might be concerned about your back?
KLECKO: They don’t have any concern about me, they know better than that. I’m always going to come out on top, no doubt. Mother Nature’s been beating on me for 50 years, so it’s not going to make a difference now. I ask that they pray for me, and I ask that it goes well.
