Former White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre left a veteran interviewer baffled during a meandering defense of former President Joe Biden’s leadership — an exchange that quickly went viral Monday.
“I’m not sure what you’re saying,” an exasperated Isaac Chotiner, staff writer for The New Yorker, told Jean-Pierre as she failed to give clear answers to questions, including examples of how Democrats “betrayed” Biden in the weeks leading up to his quitting the race last year.
The back-and-forth came as Jean-Pierre promoted her new memoir, “Independent: A Look Inside a Broken White House, Outside the Party Lines.”
The 51-year-old ex-spokeswoman for Biden, who announced in June that she was quitting the Democratic Party, used the sit-down to double down on her claims, though her answers grew meandering and evasive — producing an uncomfortable interview.
“You feel like you had to leave the Democratic Party because of the way it treated Joe Biden,” Chotiner said to Jean-Pierre.
“How did it treat Joe Biden?”
“I call it a betrayal,” Jean-Pierre told Chotiner.
“It was an all-out, full-on campaign to embarrass him, to push him out… And I just thought to myself, this man is one of the most decent people that I know. And objectively, it was a good presidency.”
Chotiner then pointed out that Jean-Pierre herself had called Trump a “threat to democracy,” asking how she could justify leaving the party at such a critical moment.
That prompted a rambling response that quickly drew attention online.
“Well, I mean, I just laid it out,” she replied. “There was an obvious campaign. You just had to watch.”
When Chotiner asked why Democratic leaders pushed Biden to quit the race, Jean-Pierre said: “Because they believed that he needed to step aside.” She then launched into a broader critique of her party’s priorities.
“This is very layered,” she said.
“You have to think about how I’m thinking about this as a Black woman who is part of the LGBTQ community, and living in this time where I also don’t think Democrats right now, Democrats’ leadership, is protecting vulnerable people in the way that it should.”
Chotiner, sounding increasingly confused, replied: “Sorry, I’m not trying to be dense. I’m a little unclear about what this has to do with Democratic leaders and many Democrats thinking that Joe Biden was going to lose to Donald Trump.”
Jean-Pierre doubled down: “Nobody knows anything. Nobody knows what would’ve happened. People also thought that if you replace Joe Biden we were going to win, or have a better chance of winning. Millions of people who showed up in 2020 didn’t show up in 2024. There was an incumbency issue as well.”
“I’m not sure what you’re saying,” Chotiner interjected.
The exchange, which unfolded over several pages, captured the ex-press secretary’s frustration with the Democratic establishment but also her difficulty articulating why she saw the president’s downfall as a personal betrayal.
Jean-Pierre argued that Biden’s critics within the party “embarrassed” him publicly as they urged him to step aside after the June 2024 debate, where the then-81-year-old president stumbled repeatedly and lost his train of thought on live television.
The meltdown spurred weeks of panic among Democrats, culminating in Biden’s withdrawal from the race on July 21 of last year and his endorsement of then-Vice President Kamala Harris, who went on to lose to Trump that November.
Jean-Pierre said she “watched Democratic leadership abandon, and in the end betray, a man who’d led our country through a pandemic and a time of historic political turmoil.”
Asked whether her loyalty to Biden outweighed her concern about Trump’s return to power, Jean-Pierre insisted that the issue was “about dignity,” not politics.
“Treating somebody with dignity is not the same as loyalty,” she said.
Chotiner pressed again, asking whether “it should have happened or shouldn’t have happened.”
Jean-Pierre responded: “Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I don’t think it should have happened. I believe we should have fought to make sure Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won. That’s what I believed.”
When the conversation turned to Biden’s health and his ability to serve through 2029, Jean-Pierre maintained that she “did not see anything that would’ve given me concern,” even as she acknowledged the president’s age.
“He was older,” she said.
“He talked about not speaking as well as he used to. But he was engaged, on top of policy, challenging his staff.”
Chotiner reminded her of Biden’s halting answers in his post-debate interview with ABC’s George Stephanopoulos — a moment that many Democrats cited as confirmation of his decline.
“When I watched that, I thought, ‘This man should not be president for four more years,’” Chotiner said.
“I’m a little surprised that you don’t see what so many people saw.”
“I’m not the only person who feels this,” Jean-Pierre replied.
“I’m just the one speaking very loudly. I’m the person who’s saying the quiet thing out loud.”
Later in the interview, Jean-Pierre said she felt alienated from a party that she claimed no longer protects marginalized groups, including immigrants and LGBTQ Americans.
“I do not feel seen in the party,” she said. “They’re throwing the LGBTQ community under the bus. They’re not fighting enough for migrants and immigrants. You have to be a big-tent party.”
She also defended Harris, calling it “an insult” that Democrats hesitated to back her as the nominee after Biden dropped out.
When asked to explain why it was an “insult,” Jean-Pierre said: “Yeah. I mean, look, you have to understand, I’m speaking also as a Black woman and what I experienced myself as being a first [black person and openly gay White House press secretary]. This is not just me. There are many Black women who feel this.”
But moments later, she admitted, “The truth was, I never really believed Harris could win.”
The apparent contradiction — whereby Jean-Pierre thought it was an “insult” to insist on an open primary but at the same time admitting that Harris may not have been able to win — prompted another puzzled follow-up from Chotiner.
“Shouldn’t you extend the same generosity to other people who didn’t think she could win?” he asked.
“Yeah, but I have every right to talk about my experience,” Jean-Pierre shot back.
“I wish you could walk in my body and live my life. Then I think you could understand what I’m saying.”
By the end of the exchange, Chotiner noted that he — like many Democrats — had simply concluded that Biden was “too old to be president for another four years.”
Jean-Pierre’s closing retort: “He’s out of the picture now, and we lost.”
