Gavin Newsom continues to be laser-focused on his duties as California governor, which in the year 2026 means — another podcast.
The governor sat down with conservative commentator Ben Shapiro on Thursday for a winding conversation that was frequently tedious but also illuminating in showing Newsom has work to do in fine-tuning his presidential campaign talking points. The reaction seemed to be two big ole’ thumbs-down from people on both the left and the right,
1. Newsom backs down on ICE criticism
The governor’s office has gone toe-to-toe with President Donald Trump and Republicans by waging an aggressive social media campaign that uses memes, profanity and personal attacks to defend Newsom’s record and also tackle topics of the day. But when asked about posts regarding an Immigration and Customs Enforcement officer fatally shooting Renee Good, a woman in Minnesota, Newsom acknowledged his social media minions have gone too far.
Ben Shapiro: Your press office tweeted out that it was “state-sponsored terrorism.” Governor, I have to ask you about that.
Gavin Newsom: Correct.
Shapiro: That sort of thing makes our politics worse.
Newsom: Yeah.
Shapiro: Our ICE officers obviously are not terrorists.
Newsom: Yeah.
Shapiro: A tragic situation is not state-sponsored terrorism.
Newsom: Yeah, I think that’s fair.
One of the most fascinating aspects of this exchange is that it got dunked on from both sides of the political spectrum.
A more liberal commentator on X called Newsom “spineless,” while another called it an obvious “flip flop.”
2. Newsom ducks transgender debate
The governor’s social media team had no problem attacking Elon Musk over the mega-billionaire’s trans child, but the governor showed off his ability to duck and weave when it came to questions about children transitioning.
Newsom: This idea that Trump says people are going to public schools and having surgeries and coming back the next day is absurd and obscene language.
Shapiro: But there are certainly cases in which kids are being “socially transitioned” at school without parents knowing about it. I know some of the parents to whom this has happened. I mean, this is — the fundamental question that lies at the root of all of this is the question that you’re not wanting to answer, which is whether boys can become girls.
Newsom: Yeah, just, well, I think, for the grace of God. Yeah.
Shapiro: I mean, I appreciate the sympathy. I also feel terrible. Listen, anybody who’s suffering from any mental or physical condition, that’s terrible.
Newsom: I think it’s been the case for generations for time in memoriam. You know, God bless.
Shapiro: Why is this a hard one? I just don’t understand why this is a hard one.
3. Newsom clenches up on ‘genocide’ in Gaza
In a clear sign that Newsom still has some work to do on his talking points about the war in Gaza, the governor broke out the tae-kwon-doe hand signals as he tried to explain his position on whether Israel committed genocide.
Shapiro: Israel did not commit a genocide in Gaza. There is no standard by which Israel committed a genocide in Gaza just on a factual level. You know this.
Newsom: Just on a legal and factual level.
Shapiro: Yes. What is your opinion of this?
Newsom: My opinion is I understand the tendency for people to make that, to assert that—
Shapiro: Why?
Newsom: On the basis of the images and the proportionality—
Shapiro: Ugly s–t doesn’t mean genocide. And proportionally doesn’t mean that if you kill my child and I then kill seven criminals, that I’ve been disproportionate.
Newsom: I’m not disagreeing with you but I understand that tendency on the basis of trying to reconcile the proportionate nature of how the war was ultimately conducted.
Shapiro: I have a question: Why do you feel the need to create a permission structure for that sort of stuff? Meaning, it’s not true? Why not just say it’s not true?
Newsom: I don’t know the legal definition or threshold. That’s not my opinion, so I don’t share that opinion as it relates to genocide.
4. High taxes in California? Look over there!
Newsom said he “can’t make up for 50–60 years” of growing costs for housing and cost of living in California, but defended his record by adding tax credits for families and those with kids and foster children.
Shapiro: How about radically lowering the income tax rates in the state?
Newsom: Well, California has a tax. I mean there’s 16 states right now. Let’s talk about those 16 states.
Shapiro: Why don’t we talk about California? That’s where you’re in charge.
Newsom: I’m going to. They tax their low-wage earners more than they tax their high-wage earners. Let’s talk about lowering the tax rate in those 16 states.
5. Newsom takes credit for California’s bloated budget
The governor took aim at Trump for not caring about the national debt while touting his recently released budget, which state auditors may dispute with far more dire deficit projections. Critics have called Newsom’s budget overly optimistic and likely to kick the can down the road for whomever becomes California’s next governor.
Newsom: We have established you like the “Big Beautiful Bill” as it relates to the tax structure. You don’t give a damn about debt, but that’s another conversation.
Shapiro: Oh no, I definitely give a damn about debt.
Newsom: Trump doesn’t appear to, does he?
Shapiro: I don’t think anyone seems to care very much about debt, governor, to be fair.
Newsom: Well, we balance our budgets, just for the record. Just for the record.
Shapiro: I mean — kind of.
